HOLY HASS VIDEOS!!!!

Quote:

---

I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah, I can hear it...it just doesn't excite me. Vinnie live at the Blue Note Tokyo with the CCAB DVD, track two. That's a strong musical statement I can connect to, as well as almost anything by Trilok Gurtu.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 06:56 PM: Message edited by: avi_bb ]</font>

I guess everyone has his own opinion. I'm the worlds biggest Vinnie fan, but I can't stand it when he plays jazz. To me players like Tain and Hass make the same rhythmic concepts swing, that Vinnie doesn't. Of course I've read quotes from both of them speaking highly of Vinnie as we all do. But he does not have that jazz thing. So we differ there. Especially within the form. Vinnies solos on that DVD are free of the song form, which for me, when a drummer cops out on the form, it takes away from everything he's playing because you can't relate it to the song.
Trilok, is amazing. period.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Paraflam:
If you're unaware of how he's making all these complex rhythms work in a musical setting such as Manhattan Vibes then it's not going hit you.

For instance on piano if you like Bud Powell, you're not going to get anything Herbie Hancock plays.

I think that this sort of drumming does nothing for folks who can't hear the color variation and musicallity that comes with complex rhythms.

You also have to like jazz and latin jazz because this particular band is of that style.

But again, if you don't understand what it takes to play that and how amazing it is to play it accurately and musically over a song form, you'll hear a wall of sound rather than a rainbow of rhythm.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow...

Are you sure you meant to be that condesending?!?! Are you basically saying people may not like this because they either can't play it, or don't understand it? I must be mistaken, you can't possibly be suggesting that... [img]eek.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img]

I enjoy what Bud Powell bringsd toi the table in that he's an entertainer, but one of my all time dream gigs would be to play with Hancock!!

I love jazz and Latin, and Latin jazz, but for me too, this did nothing. I can totally appreciate the level of technique that this takes, (Lord only knows I have studied long enough to be able to do it [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] ) but that doesn't mean because he can, he should. I don't like these vids too much. Does that mean I don't understand it?

I'm not dissing this at all, I think Steve is a massive player, and I'd love to hear his solo CD, but this really didn't do it for me. As far as complimenting the soloist, I didn't see too much of that, rather distracting infact... I, like SDK love hearing his groove-ass playing over this any day of the week...

Please, before I get ripped apart, I must impress on you that this is my own humble opinion. I don't need to tell you what a fine, dynamic, sensitive player (full to the brim of chops too) Steve Hass is.

The only quarm I have with this whole thread is the fact that you have assumed that people who don't like it don't understand it. Not cool bro'...

I pray I'm wrong, and if I am, please forgive me, but I couldn't let that lie...

MP

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SDK:
I guess everyone has his own opinion. I'm the worlds biggest Vinnie fan... But he does not have that jazz thing.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just a question, have you heard any of the Randy Waldman stuff? Especially the last one. Or how about that Jeff Beal album Three Graces.

I guess I have to say I don't agree with your opinion at all. Some dudes may fit into a jazz situation better than Vinnie, but saying he doesn't have that jazz thing is absurd.

It wasn't at all condescending. People have different tastes. I've been teaching and playing music longer than most of you have been alive, so when I hear someone playing perfect time, improvising his ass off in the polyrythmic vain of Herbie and some Indian drummers along with question and answer phrasing, I say, that's the shit! So obviously if someone says to me well..I just don't get it, does nothing for me. Well then I say it went over your head. I get it. Why don't you get it? If you can't see it or hear it. It's fine. I don't think i'm better or anything like that. I just understand where he's coming from. And i also know the jazz language and latin language. Hass with his funky modern almost ECMish latin grooves, still uses key cuban phrases. Did you hear them? Doing all this while putting in that "out" over the bar line phrasing, is very impressive to me. It's undeniebly good. If someone denies it, I assume they can't hear it, or they're purposely being stubborn about it. Vinnie get's it. When I saw Hass play at the Baked Potato when I lived in LA back in 1998, Vinnie was in the front row. Almost 10years ago.
I get frustrated because I love rhythm and the way you can manipulate it in jazz and over forms, finally some young players come along that pretty ridiculous and people are like ummm duh, does nothing for me.
But honestly, I don't mean to be a hard ass, or push my opinion. There are enough of us here that do get it. Those of you who think you understand. Transcribe what he's playing in clips 2 and 4.

Damn Parahead, you didn't look that old at Birdland. You must workout. I sort of agree with everyone. There are a few stupid comments like " this guy's amazing, but I don't understand what he's playing". Sounds like you're afraid to speak your mind.
Anyhow, I myself am floored by these Para. So don't worry about what others say. Obviously what we think is what the music industry thinks because he wouldn't be playing with the worlds greatest musicians everyday of his life. Anyone as in demand as this guy in all the different styles doesn't need to be defended on some drum board. The clips are amazing, original and 100% Hass. So who cares? Relax my man. Remember when Carlock got his ass kicked in here? HA! If you're not a fast single stroking gospel drummer, Dave or Vinnie, then someone going to make an uneducated comment. Let them. Shawn Pelton is hardly ever mentioned on here, take Vinnie's discography, triple it, and minus 15years off his career and that's Shawn. But still. Nothing about him unless it's from us.
Just enjoy the knowledge on here, and forget the bullshit. Where's Peter when you need him?

Quote:

---

Just a question, have you heard any of the Randy Waldman stuff? Especially the last one.

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Even though Vinnie has sited Tony as his biggest influence, he still swings like a fusion drummer. Don't get me wrong, I love the Randy Waldman records , but you can't eben begin to compare Vinnies' jazz feel with Tain, Elvin, Billy Higgins, Bill Stewart, Tony etc etc... these are jazz musicians and play soley jazz. They don't tour with Sting, do late night show bands, jingles for McD's or film scores.

Even though Vinnie is without doubt one of my favourite drummers, I would rather hear a whole number of other players SWING than him. As far as I'm concerned for feel and phrasing, he can't touch Tain with a shitty stick. Vinnie just hasn't got the history and vibe in his jazz feel that Blade, Tain and Stewart have.

Dazzler man. You nailed it. That's why I'm so impressed with Hass. Praised by Tain, Blade and others, he's got that feel. Having toured with Christian McBride, Ravi Coltrane, Bob Berg, and so many who need that SWING. If someone has that THING we're speaking of, that history in their time feel, yet they can cross over and play the shit out of fusion and funk, that to me is an amazing feat. Hass was Tains sub at the zinc bar for 3 years before he started getting all this studio fame.
Thanks dazzler, someone get the history of our music. A Brit! haha!

I just went back for a fourth viewing to try and understand where a couple of people on this thread are coming from.
My conclusion is that I shit my pants again. What the hell is he doing at the end of clip 2? 16th note triplets but in different groupings that change every 4 bars or so. So fluid so clear and strong. Just that alone is sick. Anyone having anything bad to say should maybe learn that shit, and then teach it to me! Anyone who can play like that has no down side. He'll just keep growing at his age.

Quote:

---

Tain..Tony etc etc... these are jazz musicians and play soley jazz. They don't tour with Sting, do late night show bands

---

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tain was the Tonight Show Band drummer (one of the biggest talk shows in N. America btw), after Ed Shaughnessy. From what I heard, his early playing influences were also rooted in fusion and possibly classical percussion. You might want to re-evaluate your definition of a 'pure' swing jazz drummer. Some people are not so quick to buy into stereotypes.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 11, 2005 10:37 PM: Message edited by: avi_bb ]</font>